- The time it takes to reload is less than the reaction time to know that a shooter is reloading.
- We fought all wars prior to the Korean war without removable magazines, and all wars prior to Vietnam with 10 round magazines (or less).
- The FBI studied mass shootings and found that the average mass shooting is 10 rounds over 5 minutes, most never even need to reload.
- In all the mass shootings in the U.S. there has never been a case where a shooter was charged and disarmed during a reload, even with revolvers.
- Shooting sprees end by them leaving, surrender, suicide or getting shot: virtually never by takedowns during reloads.
Magazine limits, assault rifle bans, outlawing removable magazines, and so on, sound great to those who don't know any better, but is just an infuriating ineffective annoyance to gun owners. Each bad law like this, makes it harder to pass "good" laws, as the tolerance for any more legislation was been wasted dividing us, instead of making a real difference.
| 00 - The Basics - The rate and effectiveness of fire (including reload times) is less about the gun or magazine than the training of the shooter.
This article shows how fast reloads are, and absurdly impractical magazine bans are at making a difference. Now some will whine, "but they're an experts"... while that's often true, many mass shooters train in advance or play games. And the difference between a pro and a good amateur is a second or fraction of a second: it doesn't really matter. There's a reason why no one has successfully rushed a mass shooter during a reload. Remember, you don't know when they're going to reload, thus by the time you've figured out they're reloading, they've already reloaded. So the problem is gun-users know more than the gun-controllers. And the informed are not resisting because they like their murder-toys, they resist because they know what won't be effective. If gun-controllers were more rational, they would ask the experts, and listen to the answers.
| 01 - Removable Magazines - |
And while he is very fast, and professional, this is a skill that many people practice, and can do well.
These guys are using pistols, but rifles are kind of easier. Also remember that most shooters have a backup gun. If someone charges, they drop the primary, pull the secondary, and ventilate them. Those that think magazine limits can help are ignorant or liars.
| 02 - Fixed Magazines - |
Here's the 1930's era M1 Garand that was standard issue in WWII, or Soviet SKS from the same era. Both these guns are Curio's & Relics, meaning they're antiques (more than 50 years old), or historical guns to collectors -- which means they often have different / easier rules to buy/sell/gift. Even some M16 are about to go into that category.
When NY or California outlaws removable magazines people can do one of 3 things:
These laws don't change firepower, so they do nothing against criminals, but annoy the hell out of other collectors or sport shooters. It's as dumb as outlawing red Porsche's to help with speeding, but not white ones, or other cars that go as fast.
| 03 - Revolvers - |
The idea of "clips" goes back to the 1800's and something called moon clips: that holds a bunch of bullets together, so you can drop them into a revolver at once. It is not much more complex to flip open the cylinder, eject, and drop in a new set of bullets, then it is to drop a magazine and drop in a new magazine. And again, mass shooters usually have more than one gun, so if someone tries to charge them, they just pull and use the other gun.
A thug with a revolver is as dangerous as one with a semi-auto. Most mass shooters don’t even need to reload w/10 rounds (which some revolvers hold). And a mass shooter with 4 revolvers can still kill 47 people and save the last bullet for himself. Which is a higher kill rate than all but one of our top mass shootings have managed (and those shootings lasted over an hour). The higher reliability of revolvers can actually increase gun fatalities. Revolvers are cheaper than semi-autos (due to their simplicity), so at least you lowered the price for the bad guys.
| 04 - Pump Action - There are "pump action" rifles, but they're most popular in shotguns.
| 05 - Lever Action - |
The same rules as apply to other guns: you can carry more than one. While rifles (and lever actions) are rarely used by mass shooters, that's just because they don't need the size/range advantages that a longer barrel has. The point is if you took away other kinds of weapons, you could still mow down dozens of people with one of these, no problem. Add in a couple more, or other guns as backup -- and they can do horrendous amounts of damage. Which is why many massacres happened with these kind of weapons in the past. Though, most of those were done by government using them against Native Americans.
| 06 - Bolt Action - |
Pre-WWI the British and the Americans had training with their bolt action rifles, that included a mad minute: seeing how many holes you could put in a target at 300 yards using their bolt action rifles -- you had to do 15 to qualify, but the peak was about 38 shots per 1 minute. But that's 300 yards with a really powerful round (30-06), if you reduced the range and size of round to something about 1/3rd the size (a .223) and you could easily up the rate of fire. The average mass shooting is like 15 minutes, do the math on that. Throw in that someone could have a backup gun (or two), and that you can speed-load these with clips/etc. The average death rate is one person every 3 minutes in a mass shooting event: people don't charge the shooter, they wait. A bolt action can kill as many as an assault rifle with those realities. Again, the problem is the guns action, it's the response times that matter.
| 07 - Break Action - |
| 08 - Air Rifle - |
Mitigation factors like magazine limits, "assault weapons", or even barring all semi-automatics does NOTHING to stop or slow mass shooters. All these guns have easily exchangeable parts, and the parts aren't illegal to buy or own, installing them is. So it takes 5 minutes (and $10 in parts) to convert a legal gun into an illegal one. More than that, if you know what you're talking about, the firepower of a bolt action rifle exceeds that necessary to kill dozens if not hundreds of people: the limiting factor is the shooters ability, random chance, and police response times.
So laws that try to stop this stuff can ONLY harass those that obey the law, and mass shooters have a tendency to break laws. And even if you complied with the law, it does virtually nothing to change the effective rate of fire or lethality for the weapon, it only changes the cosmetics.
- * Charged during a reload: There was one case of a shooter being taken out during a reload -- but it was because he stumbled around a blind corner, and into someone while reloading. But the same would have happened if he stumbled around the corner with the gun loaded, so the magazine size had nothing to do with it.