Cagegate

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Does America break up families, keep kids in cages, and abuse illegal immigrants? Obviously, not enough or there would be far fewer illegal immigrants. (They're far more looped into the risks than the average Joe). The facts are this is rare, temporary, this has been done forever (and under the Obama and Clinton administrations), and the idea that criminals shouldn't be separated from their kids is absurd. Under the Democrats reasoning, for domestic crime, it is fine to separate families. But for foreign invaders and perpetrators should get special exceptions. But a nation without laws is no longer a nation.

History

In 1997, the federal government made an agreement in a case called Flores not to keep unaccompanied illegal immigrant children in custody beyond twenty days. This got extended to accompanied minors by the 9th circuit, which ruled that the government either had to release whole families, or that the government had to separate parents from children. [1].

  1. Immigrants who come to points of entry and seek asylum aren’t arrested: they’re processed through ICE, and their children stay with them.
  2. Only illegal immigrants who cross the border illegally (and don't declare asylum until after they are caught) are treated as criminals.
  3. Even there, if they choose deportation, they aren’t separated from their kids....
  4. Only if they choose to apply for asylum (after getting caught illegally entering the country), AND they stay in the country longer than 20 days, then their kids have to be removed because of the 9th circuit ruling.
  5. Things haven't gotten worse under Obama, they peaked in 2014, when Democrats were waiving their hands and saying, "nothing to see here, go away". The facts are there are waves. The wave under an open-border administration is bigger than under someone claiming you will be arrested and deported.
  6. The one thing that happened was Stephen Miller and John Kelly got quoted/misquoted as saying, "that the administration was separating kids from parents as a sort of deterrent". Whether those were the exact words, or just the words the media put in their mouth, anyone with a lick of sense nows that the deterrent is the arrest and deportation, not separating children from parents. But either way, an executive that doesn't enforce the law on the books, is not following his Constitutional Oath. Which is something Obama did happily, but Trump has more ethics.

So this wasn't a Trump administration invention.... those claiming this is a Trump policy, or new, are either fools or liars. This was the consequences of Democrats refusing to do more for border protection, and the 9th Circuit tying the hands of the INS. But remember, if Democrats had done what they promised in 1987 (and many times since), and helped seal the border, instead of obstructing those efforts, then this would be a non-fight, and kids would not be getting separated from their families.

America can not take the influx of people that would come here if they could. Period. Fact. The only question is should we reward illegal line-jumping (the Democrats plan), or should we reward those that follow the rules by making those cutting in line, wait their turn at least (the Republicans plan)?

Democrats want to created large centralized bureaucracies and quotas, and make it hard to get in.... then they also want to reward people that subvert those laws and processes. Others think that line jumpers should be MORE vetted, and should not be rewarded. That's fundamentally what this fight is about. That and short versus long term thinking. Should we be compassionate in the short term or long term. (Help kids now, and get more of them crossing the border and being exploited. Or enforcing our border laws, discouraging illegal coyote's and human trafficking).

I ask, "Do you think illegals are stupid? Y/N". If Y, then you're probably racist. If N, then you know they're smart enough to exploit holes in the system. And there's no doubt putting an exception that says, "here's the immigration laws, unless you bring in kids"... would be a glaring hole that would be exploited. In fact it was being exploited, widely. And catch-and-release was resulting in millions disappearing in our border, and breaking the law. Which is why we changed it in the first place.

You can't have an immigration law that says "unless you bring in kids".... that would be exactly as stupid as saying, "rape is against the law, unless you make your kids watch". If it's not good enough to be against the law, then fix the law. If it is against the law, then it's against the law, whether your kids are with you or not.

More

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  • The viral image of immigrants from the Obama-era falsely attributed to the Trump administration, a photo of a child immigrant locked in a cage spread around by immigration activists has turned out to be yet more fake news: it was a staged photo from a pro-Immigrant / Anti-American group.
  • There was another photo from 2014 (Obama era), where there was a short term overflow: but the kids were cared for (not neglected), even if the optics seem bad. And this was not Trump era invention as many misreported.
  • John Favreau ranted about how aweful this was.... then when he found out his photo was during Obama's term, he apologized for his polemic dishonesty by claiming ignorance... then doubled down in claiming that Trump is worse, without any evidence or explanation as to why. Clueless Obama lackey's are not known for their honesty, or wits. Then Mr. Paste-eater went and defended Peter Strzok saying that he sounded like all the far left trolls he knows.... which undermined his own argument (that there was no taint/bias). [2]
  • John Cusack ranted about Trump, the evil fascist for doing this.... without ever checking the facts.
  • DNC politicians like Merkley spread lied about Trump administration and what was going on. He faked trying to get into a facility and getting turned away (a facility he was allowed access to). It just turns out access doesn't mean you get to walk with a camera crew and no warning for security reasons. (Facts he omitted from his reporting, just like the Obama era origins, and other misleading falsehoods).
  • The truth is the Feds pay $670/day to make sure the kids are well cared for. That's more than a room at the Ritz in many cities. And they're living a far better standard of living that 13M American children, and likely better than they had where they left, so stop with the "torturing" kids, or concentration camp bullshit. Anyone that says that proves they're either an ignorant rube, or a dishonest polemic. [3].
  • ABC and NBC both blame Trump for the Obama Era program, the very definition of FakeNews.
  • MSNBC played both sides, visiting a Texas detention facility that debunked their claims of caged heat (the facility was nice)... but they also falsely implied this was a new Trump admin policy. Then Morning Joe implies there are American Concentration camps, knowing full well that their own channel debunked the claims. Unless you think their fact checkers are too stupid to check their own channels reporting.
  • It's not just those exceptionally bad outlets, most of the media is regurgitating the lies to their audiences. (I heard NPR repeating a dozen lies). [4]
  • But if you actually see inside these facilities, they're not inhumane in the slightest: they're bureaucratic temporary housing, with well intentioned staff, in a system that can occasionally be overrun in short waves. [5]
  • Oh, and those "unaccompanied minor" kids being separated from their parents? At least some of them are violent 17 year olds that are part of MS-13. Playing up the innocent infant ripped from his mothers breast is called disinformation and propaganda. This system is a hell of a lot more complex than the poor innocent children that the Democrats use as human shields to hide behind (politically).

Conclusion

In the end, the real question is do you agree that there should be consequences for breaking the law? Y/N

  • If N, then you're an idiot that can be discounted, because a country without laws is not a country anyone wants to live in.
  • If Y, then keeping kids separate from potential felons in an adult prison, is for their own safety and is common sense. And that's a small price to pay for people seeking asylum as long as the kids are cared for, and the process is reasonable.

In the end, this debate gets to the core differences between Democrats and Republicans. Democrats are the “Why can’t we only eat candy?”, kids in a candy-store party (as long as someone else is paying for the candy). They are demonstrating short-term thinking and vilifying any authority who dares to imply that punishing lawbreakers is better than the alternative. Republicans are being the long-term thinking Daddy party, and saying, "because it's bad for you" and trying to prevent more catastrophe and abuse of minorities, but that forces us to allow kids to be separated from their parents and vet which parents are honest, which families are real or not, and not reward everyone who users their kids as human shields to circumvent immigration law... exactly like happened under Democrat administrations, when no Democrats seemed to care about this issue.

If you want to argue about whether the kids are being properly cared for, or whether the process is fast enough? Fine. Make that case, and I might agree with you. But that's not the argument most are making. They're arguing that a nation should have no right to imprison lawbreakers, or protect kids by not locking them up with their felon parents (and whoever was netted with them). And that's just stupid and racist. It pretends that illegal immigrants are too stupid to use kids as pawns (just like the Democrats do), but evidence shows they already are. [6] Democrats are either too stupid to understand that they are, or they're dishonest and using them as pawns to get what they want without admitting it: open borders. Face it, if the Democrats cared, they would have addressed this when they had super-majorities in all the houses back in 2009... instead this problem grew under Obama, and they were silent. The facilities being used are the same facilities Obama used (and the Democrats had no problem with), only they're less crowded and better managed now. It only became an issue when Republicans took the Presidency.

The legislature can fix this law at any time. The Democrats have been obstructing those chances: cries of Holocaust or Internment camps and other absurdities, can't help. They can only polarize the informed against the Democrats, and those lies can only work against fixing the solution. Which is likely what the Democrats want. They want a campaign issue for 2018, and lies pretending this is a new problem, Trump's fault, and other exaggerations is their ways to exploit children as political pawns to win an election. If the Democrats really cared, they wouldn't throw out all this invective, they'd come to the table and negotiate something that Republicans would happily fix. But if Democrats did that, they couldn't get elected by finger-pointing and blaming the Republicans for the problem.


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